Posts by Hobo Ken

9

thoughts on this old man's death?

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

claude choules, the only remaining male veteran of world war i and the last person to have served in both world wars, has died, the royal australian navy said in a statement.

will this have any impact in the minds of jw's?.

the knowledge that no one who was of reasonable age to witness 1914 are still alive surely must resonate with some.. full article here.

Hobo Ken

I'm obviously aware of the new "overlapping" generation doctrine.

My point is that yes the wtbts can print as many magazines as they like and change their doctrines, but they cannot completely control the deep subconcious.

A simple thing like this could pave the way for older ones to start thinking about the way the 1914 doctrine used to be taught.

I have friends who have left the org because of just such a process.

For some the change when the book study was ditched , for others the U.N. involvement still others the child abuse issues. These are not necessarily doctrinal but can create a paradigm shift in a person's deep subconcious which leads to more rational, clear ,objective thinking.

It may be that as we approach 2014 it will intensify and people may start "waking up".

Matt

9

thoughts on this old man's death?

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

claude choules, the only remaining male veteran of world war i and the last person to have served in both world wars, has died, the royal australian navy said in a statement.

will this have any impact in the minds of jw's?.

the knowledge that no one who was of reasonable age to witness 1914 are still alive surely must resonate with some.. full article here.

Hobo Ken

Claude Choules, the only remaining male veteran of World War I and the last person to have served in both world wars, has died, the Royal Australian Navy said in a statement. He was 110.

Will this have any impact in the minds of jw's?

The knowledge that no one who was of reasonable age to witness 1914 are still alive surely must resonate with some.

full article here

1914 my thoughts

matt

144

1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization

by StandFirm in

here is the promised debate.

the subject is whether or not god has an organization.

i'll start things simply:.

Hobo Ken

Excellent post maksym.

I think the salient point you make about the church being in existence first before the new testament canon being completed is spot on.

Also the fact the "Bible" was collated during the time that supposed "great apostasy" was in full swing is huge for JW's.

They cannot have it both ways.

Either God was using an organisation to do his work or he wasn't.

The fact that an important event such as that occurred during this dark apostate time is something they don't want to acknowledge. It causes them to face up to the fact that either you don't need an organisation to serve God or as you say basically God was beaten and allowed the apostates to win, despite the Bible saying this would never happen.

A superb effort by everyone on this thread.

An honest presentation of history without bias will always expose those who have distorted, self serving doctrinal agendas.

Where's Standfirm anyway?

Matt

144

1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization

by StandFirm in

here is the promised debate.

the subject is whether or not god has an organization.

i'll start things simply:.

Hobo Ken

So standfirm is that the best reply you could muster after some excellent posts by the likes of Terry and others?

You pick one or two which presumably you've chosen because they fall into your preferred field of vision, and suit your argument.

Marvin is essentially asking were those 19th cen. Christians :

1.True Christians?

2. Organised?

3.How did that express itself?

Whether they were organised or not one thing is certain they were not part of the Watchtower Society since it didn't exist.

You respond to these questions with some jw dogma about the"great apostasy". Which is really the wtbs's only way of explaining why , if they are god's organisation they only appeared on the world scene in the late 1800's.

It is truly arrogant to suggest that while these people were Christians the were disadvantaged by the fact they lived before God's organisation on earth had been formed in the shape of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Moreover what marvin raised was anything but a red herring as you call it. Instead you are the one who implies that there was 1st century "spiritual prosperity" when time after time people have posted evidence of the exact opposite being the case, lack of organisation, disunity, people going it alone etc etc. And yet you chose to ignore all of that.

It's also been extensively pointed out that there probably were many ideas and many separate groups all following Christ but not a single christian set of "doctrines" which everyone in the 1st cent unanimously agreed on.

Really the purpose of this thread is to validate a JW teaching that God had an organistion in the 1st century.

Because the Witnesses , like you, are not interested in establishing the facts of history if they happen to contravene one or more of your doctrines.

They have ably demonstrated a complete contempt for the non-biased expert opinion of people whose job it is to establish things such the date and manner of particular events.

Jerusalem's destruction.

Worldwide flood.

Death of jesus on a cross.

Ice age.

I could go on. But the real question should be if you standfirm believe that god has an organisation and it's the witnesses, when did he pick your religion?

I'm presuming the reasoning will be there was a 1st cen version so then it would follow he has one today and that would be Jehovah's Witnesses?

I look forward to a response and some proof that your religion has been chosen to represent God's interests on earth.

Matt

144